Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

[glnc222]

This is not normal and indicates a fault in the system or in the battery. The battery temperature can be read over USB with the Neato Control Program. The batteries include thermistors to measure temperature.

NiMh batteries do heat up at the end of charging and the temperature controls the charger. If the batteries are initially cool at room temperature 20C they will not normally go over 25C at the end. When NiMh batteries are full, the charging current continues and is dissipated as heat.
The Neato detects temperatures not normal and stops charging to allow the batteries to cool, with the message. This is seldom seen.

Lithium batteries do not get hot. The AnewPow batteries generate a false temperature signal based on voltage to control the charger.
When the Neato is set to Vorwerk BatteryType 3 configuration, the charger terminates on voltage 16.8v and the battery should not get hot.
Some faulty AnewPow batteries have been reported which generated an incorrect high temperature signal causing the Neato message.
At very high temperatures approaching 60C the Neato automatically shuts down for a fire emergency.

[Jean-benoit]

Bonsoir

Ton robot fonctionne avec quelles types de batteries ? Des NiMh ? Li ion ?.. A quel moment indique t-il cela ? pendant la charge ? Ce sont des pack de chez qui ?
Les NiMh ont tendance a chauffer il y a dans chaque pack une thermistance pour que le robot contrôle la T° pendant la charge
Les Li Ion, ne chauffent pas par contre leur charge est spécifique compte tenu de l'instabilité de la chimie Li Ion pour éviter toute explosion

[cyrille]

Ce sont des li ion achetées chez Robovox sur Amazon. Il me marque ça quand je le lance par moment. Le robot est aussi chaud au niveau des batteries mais pas tout le temps.

Il existe un risque d'incendie ? Je ne suis pas rassuré là...

[glnc222]

There is no "unlock" brand of batteries. I do not know what you have. Personally I would not use any lithium battery which gets hot. There is a fire hazard with improperly made lithium batteries, compared to poor quality NiMh batteries, a sensitivity in the chemistry where any contaminants cause a problem. Lithium requires high quality manufacture from reliable companies (so laptop and cell phone batteries should come from the major suppliers).
I would want to know exactly how hot these batteries get, using USB measurements with the Neato Control Program. I would also contact the supplier for advice.
There are some lithium Neato batteries sold from unknown sources on Aliexpress, but the reliable Neato lithium battery in Europe is from ANewPow (same as LithiumPowerInc in the U.S., a Taiwan company). It appears that Cyber-Tech is also a distributor for them. AnewPow batteries are made with LiNMC chemistry safer than regular lithium in cell phones and laptops, used in power tool packs. Users of AnewPow batteries have not reported any error messages for temperature. It is possible you received a defective unit.

fake battery report YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNHzYx8FEh0

[glnc222]

When the load on a battery or the charging current exceeds the capacity of the cells they will heat up, from the internal battery resistance. A defective battery might have a reduced capacity which does not meet the requirements of the robot and tends to get warm. Hot implies a higher temperature. Shorting out a safe lithium type LiFePo4 makes the cells blistering hot because they support a very high current (damaging the cells of course). The lithium replacement batteries are supposed to have protection circuit boards in them cutting out on out of spec conditions, producing major error messages on the computer or complete shut down.
Cells are made with wide differences in characteristics and costs. A hybrid car cell can support over 100 amps and cost $25 each. The robot batteries are similar to laptop battery cells and power tool packs. NiMh cells can get quite hot at the end of charge as a normal condition and how the charger is controlled. This is maximized in single cell external chargers, where you can feel how hot they get. One type made for very rapid charging 15 minutes at 8 amps got so hot I decided not to use them, as one wonders of they would burst (no fire hazard like lithium, where the material itself catches fire).

There have been reports of defective AnewPow batteries and the company does have a warranty. The price of NiMh Neato Batteries has fallen over years and the advantages may not match the higher prices of the lithium replacements in all cases. They are of special interest for operation with more than one charging cycle to clean the house, wearing the battery out faster.

[cyrille]

Voici mon vendeur, il me semblait correcte... non ?

https://www.amazon.fr/dp/B01AGDQRUC/ref ... 91_TE_item

[cyrille]

neato1.png (52.28 Kio) Vu 6272 fois

neato2.png (51.98 Kio) Vu 6272 fois

Vous en pensez quoi ? Merci de votre aide.

[cyrille]

neato3.png (47.39 Kio) Vu 6270 fois

Par contre il indique NiMH, il y a un probleme là... !

[glnc222]

Battery temperature shown 23C, warm but not as hot as NiMh 25C after charging. Room temperature near 20C. There can be heating in the lithium pack when charging not from the cells but from the balancing circuit board (in some DIY constructions this heat is used to raise temperature of the thermistors instead of a synthetic thermistor signal), balancing currents. I do not see why error messages would result from this temperature. The synthetic temperature will probably show a higher value at the very end of charging, to control the charger. If the batteries are hot to the touch, then the circuit board is not supplying the actual temperature to the robot. I would not use batteries which get hot to the touch. Try a medical thermometer. Consult the AnewPow company.
You have the best replacement lithium batteries, AnewPow. They may have their own website and offer a warranty on the batteries.

[cyrille]

Merci glnc222.

Et pourquoi c'est indiqué NiMH alors que ce sont des Li ion ?

[Jean-benoit]

Bonsoir

NiMh est le réglage de la charge par défaut des séries XV car ils sont vendu d'origine avec des batteries NiMh à la différence des Kobold qui sont en Li ion .
Le robot ne sait pas reconnaitre de lui même le type de batteries qui sont montées, il faut donc déclarer "manuellement" dans le SW du robot le type de batterie lorsqu'elles ne sont pas NiMh

[glnc222]

AnewPow lithium batteries replace original NiMh batteries by simulating NiMh behavior for the charger with included circuit boards. The battery type configuration of the Neato software is not possible in the older XV system boards before Vorwerk options.
NiMh is charged under control of temperature read over the thermistors, heating up when the battery is full.
Lithium is charged under control of voltage where the battery does not absorb charge after reaching a maximum voltage (16.8v for the four series).
The voltage on the NIMh batteries will go as high as 18.5v when heating up at the end, and cannot be used for lithium charging. The simulation circuits signal a false temperature rise at 16.8v.
Another method, used in early German DIY lithium replacements, is for a balancing circuit (keeping all cells equally charged) heating up in contact with the thermistors.
This method is also used with DIY lithium batteries for the Botvac, where the software cannot be configured for Vorwerk batteries.
The newest Botvac's all use original lithium batteries; the entire industry has switched over to this type with advances in lithium battery chemistry.

[cyrille]

Sans titre.png (56.84 Kio) Vu 6245 fois

En charge...

[glnc222]

The lithium batteries are supposed to be cooler than NiMh. 49C is hot. The battery looks defective. I have not used them myself. Contact the supplier.
The enclosed battery compartment is not made for high temperatures, has no cooling ventilation like a single cell open charger, and the plastic can soften and warp.

If you have a newer Rev64 Binky system board, without the side jack for charging, you can try USB command SetConfig BatteryType 3 to set Vorwerk lithium charging mode (note original type to reset when needed before changing). This will terminate charging at 16.8v in case the adapter board in the pack is not working properly and bypassing a lot of current without properly tripping protection cut off when charging incorrectly. The cells do not pass current above 16.8v in the nature of lithium chemistry, and usually trigger an error or protection cut off.
If the battery charges cool then the adapter board is generating the heat, not the cells.
Then the adapter board is defective and the packs need to be replaced.
It is possible the Neato system board is not responding properly to the heat, which would also show up charging the original NiMh batteries.

[pof22]

Bonjour,
Mes batteries de mon neato xv sont mortes ,je souhaiterai les changer .

Je viens de voir ce post,je ne suis pas un balaise en électronique,mais je suis bon bricoleur,je pense donc pouvoir y arriver avec un bon tuto comportant l'achat et la réalisation puis la configuration avec le logiciel.

Quelqu'un peut il mettre un tuto pour la communauté ,merci

Je viens de télécharger neato control ,ou trouver la connexion neato au pc avec la fiche com,merci

[Jean-benoit]

Bonjour,

Tout est indiqué en Page 1 !
Le schéma électrique que j'ai fait pour mes pack est également en page 1

Bonne réalisation

JB

[Lokean]

Tu es parti sur une 2S2P alors qu'une 2S pourrait suffire en capacité a priori, cela limiterait le coût?

[glnc222]

XV models require a 4 series of Lithium Ion 4.2v max for the system voltage (original 12 series NiMh 1.2v each cell). Parallel pairs are used to increase capacity when the individual cells are too small. It is best to use LiNMC safer cells as used in the original page 1 project -- lower capacity than some others, but safer. Some newer model cells may be available with higher capacity. New chemical formulas have been appearing. The original XV battery was 3200 mah capacity. Adding more capacity will not increase the run time as the charge usage is programmed. An unused portion is kept to prevent damaging deep discharge. Use only major brand cells, Panasonic, Samsung etc. for quality assurance with fire hazards in lithium batteries.

All cells 18650 size (18x65mm) for high drain types. Welded tabs for soldering are preferred for safe soldering with lithium cells. The Akutiel German distributor attaches tabs.

The original German project used four Samsung cells for less than the full run time possible with the XV. Other German projects used 8 cells for higher capacity.

NOTE Neato Rev64 Binky newer system board required to use the SetConfig command for lithium charging configuration. For older Rev113 Cruz system boards (with side charging jack) a different method with balancer board for heating thermistors is needed -- used in the original German project at Roboter-Forum.

Salvage thermistors and polyfuses, thermal fuses from discarded NiMh packs. However, these functions are replaced by the protection circuit boards.

[Toinou79]

Bonjour,
Alors c'est la série...le xv-25 indique que son champ est bloqué. Je dois le démonter et regarder si c'est la courroie ou le moteur. D'après ce sud j'ai vu sur les forums. Mais là n'est pas l'objet de ma question. Sur le Botvac D85 de mes parents, les batteries ont l'air mortes (le robot indiqué d'ouvrir le bac et de l'allumer et d'après les forums, c'est la batterie). C'est un seul pack de 10 cellules qui indiquent 10 V et 3600 mAh. Vu que ça a fonctionné nickel sur le xv-25, je suis chaud pour y aller sur le D85. Avez-vous des données ? Faisabilité, type de batteries et PCB...
Merci d'avance.

[glnc222]

AnewPow sells lithium replacements for Botvac NiMh batteries. 12v system compared to XV model 15v system.
The price of NiMh batteries has fallen over years. Lithium more expensive but longer lasting.
A DIY LiFePo4 lithium battery for Botvac http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=19149&hilit=DIY+Botvac
(LiFePo4 cells last ten times longer than any other cell type, but have lower energy density. Used in electric bikes, solar power etc.)
The SetConfig command used with XV models to set lithium type is not available on Botvac. The balancer heating method was used.
I do not recommend making a DIY NiMh Botvac battery. The sub-c size cells must be high drain type hard to find in this size and do not save cost.