Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar sylvain78b » Dim 12 Juil 2020 10:03

Bonjour,

J'ai réalisé mes batteries Li ion :) ! Mais j'ai une petite question ou trouver le programme Neatocontrol.exe ?

En effet j'ai téléchargé la version 3.3 mais celle-ci ne reconnait pas la commande : "setconfigbatterytype 3"

Elle me renvoi un message comme quoi la commande est inconnue, une idée ?

Merci

Image
sylvain78b
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar Jean-benoit » Dim 12 Juil 2020 21:02

Bonsoir,

essayez avec cette orthographe: setconfig BatteryType 3
Jean-benoit
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar sylvain78b » Mar 14 Juil 2020 06:55

Jean-benoit a écrit:Bonsoir,

essayez avec cette orthographe: setconfig BatteryType 3


Super ça marche merci Jean Benoît :)
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Ven 17 Juil 2020 14:20

Jean, your post is amazing

i am upgrading my neato
made a pack like yours and managed to use command "setconfig BatteryType 3" and now it shows i have a lithium 4 cell pack

i have an issue that either i get message "battery is low please charge" or "batteries have critical error... "
(all batteries are good charged and can give 15 amps each)

do you know what i could be?

i think i might have a very old firmware (2.6) do you know where could get a newer one?

thanks
M
Fichiers joints
IMG_20200716_145829A.jpg
IMG_20200716_145829A.jpg (253.77 Kio) Vu 1457 fois
neato sensors.JPG
neato sensors.JPG (127.96 Kio) Vu 1457 fois
neato version.JPG
neato version.JPG (55.91 Kio) Vu 1457 fois
motymen
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Ven 17 Juil 2020 16:56

just an update on my last post

after having problems with firmware 2.6

upgraded firmware to 3.2 (maximum on rev 113 board i have) > get batteries error 0005 on screen

did setconfig BatteryType 1 in neatocontrol

did setconfig BatteryType 2 in neatocontrol > error is gone BUT:

battery pack is at 16.17V but vac has its fuelPercent at 21 (should be at ~94)

and LithiumChargeEnables = 0

what it does now it charges till bms disconnect batteries and i get battery error

even if i stop charging i still cant use vac because battery is low...

am i missing anything

please help :")

dumps from neato control

version info
**************
GetVersion
Component,Major,Minor,Build
ModelID,-1,VR100,
ConfigID,1,,
Serial Number,WTD48611DD,0051628,P
Software,3,2,18755
BatteryType,3,LIION_4CELL,
BlowerType,1,BLOWER_ORIG,
BrushSpeed,1200,,
BrushMotorType,1,BRUSH_MOTOR_ORIG,
SideBrushType,1,SIDE_BRUSH_NONE,
WheelPodType,1,WHEEL_POD_ORIG,
DropSensorType,1,DROP_SENSOR_ORIG,
MagSensorType,1,MAG_SENSOR_ORIG,
WallSensorType,1,WALL_SENSOR_ORIG,
Locale,1,LOCALE_USA,
LDS Software,V2.6.15295,0000000000,
LDS Serial,WTD48511AA-0080143,,
LDS CPU,F2802x/c001,,
MainBoard Vendor ID,543,,
MainBoard Serial Number,42908,,
MainBoard Version,7,1,
ChassisRev,1,,
UIPanelRev,1,,



sensor data
**************
____ Discrete: ____=
SNSR_DC_JACK_CONNECT=True
SNSR_DUSTBIN_IS_IN=True
SNSR_LEFT_WHEEL_EXTENDED=False
SNSR_RIGHT_WHEEL_EXTENDED=False
LSIDEBIT=False
LFRONTBIT=False
RSIDEBIT=False
RFRONTBIT=False
____ Analog: ____=
WallSensorInMM=OFF: 74
BatteryVoltageInmV=16251
LeftDropInMM=OFF: 60
RightDropInMM=OFF: 60
RightMagSensor=OFF: 1
LeftMagSensor=OFF: 3
XTemp0InC=-30
XTemp1InC=15
VacuumCurrentInmA=0
ChargeVoltInmV=23987
NotConnected1=0
BatteryTemp1InC=30
NotConnected2=0
CurrentInmA=-2051
NotConnected3=0
BatteryTemp0InC=29
____ Buttons: ____=
BTN_SOFT_KEY=False
BTN_SCROLL_UP=False
BTN_START=False
BTN_BACK=False
BTN_SCROLL_DOWN=False
____ Charger: ____=
FuelPercent=23
BatteryOverTemp=0
ChargingActive=1
ChargingEnabled=1
ConfidentOnFuel=0
OnReservedFuel=0
EmptyFuel=0
BatteryFailure=0
ExtPwrPresent=1
ThermistorPresent[0]=1
ThermistorPresent[1]=1
BattTempCAvg[0]=30
BattTempCAvg[1]=30
VBattV=16.25
VExtV=23.96
Charger_mAH=2065
MaxPWM=65536
PWM=46113
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar Jean-benoit » Ven 17 Juil 2020 20:12

Hi Motymen,

Could you explain the type of li ion capacity cellule and bms what you use for your pack.
After replace the 2 pack in the robot and after use the Command setconfig BatteryType 3 it's necessary to put on the screen New battery and after put the robot on the dock.
Could you test the charge with your old battery Nimh after modification set config battery type 1 ( 6 battery NiMh); do you have any error ?.
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar glnc222 » Dim 19 Juil 2020 15:19

SetConfig does not work on the oldest Rev113 Cruz system boards even without an error response. Only newer Rev64 Binky system boards can be used.
Lithium cells in the older models must use a temperature synthesis method similar to the commercial lithium ion replacement batteries for the NiMh charger. Simple circuit designs available.
The older system boards had a side jack on the case for the charger besides the charging dock. Newer models eliminated this side jack, but you should check the label on the board.
Firmware files for the Neato XV were captured by users for offline updating. It is important to use the precise version needed for each system board. Rev113 cannot be updated past v3.2. Most important additions were made in v3.1 with the "corner clever" improved corner behavior. Updating firmware incorrectly can damage the unit beyond repair, so it is best to be familiar with these procedures. See english forum threads
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=134696#p134696
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=152210#p152210
There are two methods, one using Vorwerk files and one using Neato files captured in Russia.

"Critical Battery" means the battery is not detected, no voltage, as though not installed. The robot will operate on dock power without the battery.
High voltage from the NiMh charger can activate over-voltage protection circuits in the battery pack disconnecting the battery so it would not be connected.
Some of these circuits cannot be reset and must be replaced. Check voltage on the pack with a multimeter to see if operating.
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Jeu 23 Juil 2020 17:37

Jean-benoit a écrit:Hi Motymen,

Could you explain the type of li ion capacity cellule and bms what you use for your pack.
After replace the 2 pack in the robot and after use the Command setconfig BatteryType 3 it's necessary to put on the screen New battery and after put the robot on the dock.
Could you test the charge with your old battery Nimh after modification set config battery type 1 ( 6 battery NiMh); do you have any error ?.


sorry for late reply, i didnt get notices for the replies

after getting error 5000 with the 26560 blue batteries (4s 1p 500 mah) i made a new pack with 12 18650 (4s 3p - 7500 mah) each 3P have a BMS
(im using 12X 18650 of 2500 mah each)

when i put "new battery" i get error 0005

set config battery type 1 and set config battery type 3 and set fuel gage i get a working neato - had it working 40 minutes today and charge went from 16.6 to 16.7 to 16.1V

but if i let it go to sleep/shut down i get error 0005 when waking up

about checking with old batteries i have the cables connected to the new batteries with bms and i dont wanna desolder them for now i will leave that check as a last option ( both temperature probes are working and all the connections are good)
Fichiers joints
IMG_20200723_202447.jpg
IMG_20200723_202447.jpg (162.98 Kio) Vu 1434 fois
setbatterytyp3.JPG
setbatterytyp3.JPG (62.69 Kio) Vu 1434 fois
IMG_20200723_141251.jpg
IMG_20200723_141251.jpg (237.93 Kio) Vu 1434 fois
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar Jean-benoit » Jeu 23 Juil 2020 20:09

Hello,

Please, could you precise what is the motherboard in your Robot: On the screen: Menu -> support -> show revision -> Board is ???
Thank's
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Jeu 23 Juil 2020 20:19

glnc222 a écrit:SetConfig does not work on the oldest Rev113 Cruz system boards even without an error response. Only newer Rev64 Binky system boards can be used.


i have the rev113 board - upgraded from 2.6 to 3.2 and back to 3.1 ( tought 3.1 might work better with lithium batteries )

glnc222 a écrit:Lithium cells in the older models must use a temperature synthesis method similar to the commercial lithium ion replacement batteries for the NiMh charger. Simple circuit designs available.
The older system boards had a side jack on the case for the charger besides the charging dock. Newer models eliminated this side jack, but you should check the label on the board.


yes i have the old rev113 with the side jack and i used the cruz firmware to upgrade the botvac

glnc222 a écrit:Firmware files for the Neato XV were captured by users for offline updating. It is important to use the precise version needed for each system board. Rev113 cannot be updated past v3.2. Most important additions were made in v3.1 with the "corner clever" improved corner behavior. Updating firmware incorrectly can damage the unit beyond repair, so it is best to be familiar with these procedures. See english forum threads
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=134696#p134696
http://www.robotreviews.com/chat/viewtopic.php?p=152210#p152210
There are two methods, one using Vorwerk files and one using Neato files captured in Russia.


i upgraded using the vorwerk files


glnc222 a écrit:"Critical Battery" means the battery is not detected, no voltage, as though not installed. The robot will operate on dock power without the battery.
High voltage from the NiMh charger can activate over-voltage protection circuits in the battery pack disconnecting the battery so it would not be connected.
Some of these circuits cannot be reset and must be replaced. Check voltage on the pack with a multimeter to see if operating.



there is voltage and temperature readings from both packs, voltage is currently 16.1v temps about 26C

if battery mode 1 /2 robot works ok and i can turn off > on and no error

if battery mode 3 robot works ok only after first boot and when turn off > on - error 0005

Jean-benoit: do you have a cruze board or a blinky?
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Jeu 23 Juil 2020 21:56

Jean-benoit a écrit:Hello,

Please, could you precise what is the motherboard in your Robot: On the screen: Menu -> support -> show revision -> Board is ???
Thank's


board rev 113
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Jeu 23 Juil 2020 22:55

ok i checked the temperature cutoff system for NIMH batteries from the german forum

https://www.roboter-forum.com/index.php ... /&pageNo=1

i did a short test:

pack at 15.9V

conected neato to charger

charege started @ 2.4 Ah

heated battery thermistor with blower in a way so temperature rise slow

temp of thermistors reached 45

charge stop

after 1 minutes trickle charge charge start @ .4 Ah
****
as of now, 40 minutes after 0.4 charge started, the trickle charge continues and battery in screen shows full (fuelpercent = 92 in neato control)

i would have prefered no trickle charge (not charging batteries to 4.2 extends lifetime)

jean, you have a Binky board? ( i was hoping you where using russian firmware and the problem was the german one i was using...)
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar glnc222 » Sam 25 Juil 2020 19:00

If battery type 3 lithium is set and NiMh battery is installed, the charger will terminate at 16.8v vs about 18.5v for NiMh when pushing in charge, so only partly charged. Then it is safe to install lithium batteries.
The NiMh charger terminates when temperature rises faster than 1C/Minute -- standard NiMh method for enclosed packs. Only the high voltage side pack thermistor is used. A following trickle charge cycle is used to top off the charge to maximum possible. Open air single cell NiMh chargers terminate when a small drop in voltage occurs when full, as there is no containment to over-heat. Lithium cells do not heat up. Charging lithium must terminate at the maximum voltage or the battery can be damaged. NiMh just dissipates excess current as heat when full.
Lithium batteries will not be fully charged to maximum in Neato because the second constant-voltage charging cycle is omitted, using just the main constant current 2 amp phase. About 10 per cent of capacity will not be filled, maybe more. Total capacity is sufficient to operate without the unused part. Lithium packs must be constructed to use 2 amp charging rate, often done by using 2-parallel construction. Specifications for cells used must be checked to support the charging rate and up to 5 amps discharge rate (normally around 3 amps but occasionally peaking when bumping obstacles).
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar Jean-benoit » Mar 28 Juil 2020 20:01

Hello Motymen

i think, it's not possible to manage li ion with mother board Rev 113.
all my Robots XV are with the Panasonic Li ion battery and thre are with a Binky Rev 64
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Mer 29 Juil 2020 19:00

Jean-benoit a écrit:Hello Motymen

i think, it's not possible to manage li ion with mother board Rev 113.
all my Robots XV are with the Panasonic Li ion battery and thre are with a Binky Rev 64


yes, the code in the 113 does not have lithium battery charging

and glnc222, the answer is simple i cannot use lithium batteries witout special circuitry because i have the crappy 113 board , there is no need for the long post
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar motymen » Mer 29 Juil 2020 19:01

also jean

post an update saying that you can only use your mod if you have the blinky board, it could save a lot of time for people with older units :")
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar Jean-benoit » Mer 29 Juil 2020 20:50

Jean-benoit a écrit:Bonsoir,

Voila, j'ai sauté le pas, j'ai construit moi même 2 pack de batteries Li Ion pour remplacer mes vieux pack NiMh à bout de souffle.
j'ai choisi 8 cellules (4 par pack) de chez Panasonic ref: CGR 18650 CH avec onglet a souder en U d'une capâcité de 2250mAh made in Japan ce qui est un gage de qualité !
Pour assurer la gestion de la charge/décharge de chaque cellule, j'ai opté pour la mise en place de 4 PCB ( 1 par paire de cellules) de chez Keeppower XZD-2004 3.5A-6.5A avec un micro contrôleur Ricoh pouvant gérer chacun 2 cellules en montage série (7.2v) , l'équilibrage de la charge décharge de chaque cellule est donc parfaitement assuré. Certains d'entre vous dirons peut-être que c'est "riche" mais, j'ai préféré assurer le coup.
Chaque pack est donc constitué de 2 paires de 2 cellules montée en série et, les paires de cellules sont assemblées // soit une tension de 7.2v pour une capacité totale de 4500mAh.
Paire li ion assemblée.jpg


J'ai récupéré sur les anciens pack le faisceau électrique avec la sonde de T°. Les batteries Li Ion chauffent bien moins que les NiMh ceci dit, j'ai préféré garder la sonde par sécurité. Lors de la première charge, j'ai mesuré dans un pack ( sonde du thermométre placée entre 2 cellules) à l'aide d'un thermomètre numérique une T° de 26,4°C au bout d'une heure de charge.
Faisceau electrique.jpg


Toutes les connections sont réalisées par soudure a l'étain, j'ai utilisé des fils de 1mm2 je pense qu'il y a moyen d'optimiser par du 0.8mm2.
Pack li ion terminé 1.jpg
Pack li ion terminé.jpg

Utiliser également des manchons rétractables pour éviter tout risque de Court Circuit

Les 4 cellules rentrent au chausse pied dans le logement du robot, il faut donc soigner la taille des soudures, positionnement des PCB , des fils...
Pack li ion installés dans XV25.jpg


Une fois les batteries mises en place dans le robot, il faut modifier les paramètres du soft gérant la charge. Pour cela, il faut connecter le robot à un PC, lancer "Neato control .exe"( préalablement installé sur le PC) , cliquer sur "Connecter", les configurations du robot sont maintenant visibles, cliquer sur "Command" taper dans la ligne de command : setconfigbatterytype 3, cliquer sur "Run", il apparait dans l'espace de réponse Battery LIION 4 cell , cliquer sur "Déconnecter" les paramètres de charge sont donc a présent pour des batteries Li ION.

Le cout de ces 2 packs :
Cellules 5.30€ x 8 = 42.4€
PCB = 4 x 3.85€ = 15.40€
Frais de port = 12.90€
Total = 70.70€; matériel acheté : https://www.akkuteile.de/
Compter 1 heure pour faire le premier pack et le 2° en 30 min.

je n'ai pas encore eut de temps de vérifier quel était sont temps de fonctionnement maxi avant recharge.


En complément: seules les cartes mères BINKY REV64 sont capables de gérer les batteries Li ion.
A ne pas utiliser avec les REV 113
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar DOUDOU10 » Ven 25 Sep 2020 07:44

motymen a écrit:Jean, your post is amazing

i am upgrading my neato
made a pack like yours and managed to use command "setconfig BatteryType 3" and now it shows i have a lithium 4 cell pack

i have an issue that either i get message "battery is low please charge" or "batteries have critical error... "
(all batteries are good charged and can give 15 amps each, regulateur solaire de charge
)

do you know what i could be?

i think i might have a very old firmware (2.6) do you know where could get a newer one?

thanks
M


Lithium-ion batteries are very special, have you tried recharging them with a refurbished solar charger? it is an IP22 charger with 3 charging stages and the Batery-Life function allows the battery to be recovered if it is in a critical condition
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar glnc222 » Mar 29 Sep 2020 19:13

To make lithium batteries for the older Rev113 system boards which do not process the SetConfig command, the heating of NiMh batteries can be simulated, either with a simulating circuit, or with a balancer board which heats up and put in contact with the pack thermistor. The latter method was originally used in Germany long ago. Commercial lithium replacements employ a temperature signal synthesizing board, raising temperature when the maximum voltage is reached. A simple circuit can also accomplish this, as discussed in the American forum at https://www.billoreilly.com/site/rd?satype=40&said=4&aaid=email&camid=-5672383184592274102&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.billoreilly.com%2Flive%3Futm_source%3Dnewsletter%26utm_medium%3Demail%26utm_campaign%3Ddebate
-- very long thread with the old German circuits at the beginning. The circuit shown there was for LiFePo4 cells with slightly different voltages than used for lithium ion cells.
It is important to have over-voltage protection for the fire hazard in lithium cells.
The LiFePo4 battery lacked sufficient capacity for the XV model, but a better cell type was found to work in the Botvac, with an off-the-shelf balance board for heating the thermistor.
The original German balancer adapter was discontinued because the component used was discontinued. It may be difficult to find a balancer board which heats up enough, as they have become more efficient.
The NiMh charger detects full charge by the temperature on the thermistor in the high voltage pack of the pair, rising faster than 1C/min., standard NiMh method. When fully charged NiMh continues to absorb charging current but dissipating it as heat. Lithium batteries do not absorb more current and charging terminates at a maximum voltage. If lithium batteries are attached to an NiMh charger, an error occurs when the cells do not take current anymore but the temperature signal is missing. An over-voltage condition occurs because the constant-current charging regulator raises the voltage as far as possible to try and push in more charge, triggering any over-voltage protection circuits.
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Re: Faire ses pack batteries Li ion

Messagepar sylvain78b » Ven 25 Déc 2020 21:46

Bonjour à tous,

J'ai réalisé ces batteries Li ion mais malheureusement depuis plusieurs mois j'ai un problème. Parfois j'ai l'erreur 0002, cela devient de plus en plus récurrent au point de ne plus pouvoir utiliser mon robot. J'ai bien changé le type de batterie, mais j'ai quand même l'erreur :( ! Que conseillez vous que je fasse ?

Merci
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